-------------------------------------- ICQ History Log For: 15064117 Azrael Started on Mon Jul 12 15:58:51 1999 -------------------------------------- Azrael 7/11/99 2:59 PM so do you like being a cult leader? Vangel 7/12/99 1:20 PM hehe do you really think that we're a cult? or are you just trying to be insulting =) i've heard that you're pretty cool (besides the fact that you hate JF). do you care if i add you to my contact list? Azrael 7/12/99 1:20 PM your an orginization that bases it's beliefs on religion that's a cult Vangel 7/12/99 1:25 PM really? wow. i thought that a cult was something entirely different. anyway i'm not really the leader, i'm just a member. Armageddon seems to think you're ok, what did you guys talk about? Azrael 7/12/99 1:26 PM the hypocracy of the jesus freaks Vangel 7/12/99 1:27 PM sounds interesting... got some time to explain it to me? Azrael 7/12/99 1:31 PM well take the name for instance a freak is something queer or unusual how does that go with jesus, plus jesus's followers (if i am not mistaken) were not abnormal in anyway saying that you are a jesus freak reflects badly on the nazerene Azrael 7/12/99 1:33 PM besides the fact that most in your guild are hypocrites and do lash out and attack those around them Vangel 7/12/99 1:35 PM well, i think you've taken the name wrong. being a freak about something can also mean that you're "all out" about it. You could also call me a computer freak. We got the name from DC talk's song "Jesus Freak". (more) Vangel 7/12/99 1:37 PM I can't vouch for all of the JF members. As for myself, i can't say that I'm perfect. (more) Azrael 7/12/99 1:38 PM you've created a hypocritical cult that will ecentually kill itself from withing plus you have made man's worst folly introduced religion to a game and created chaos Vangel 7/12/99 1:42 PM I think that Christians are supposed to be different. Our scriptures tell us this: "do not be conformed to this world, but instead be transformed by the renewing of your mind". Pauls letter to the Corinthians refers to the appostles as "fools for Christ sake". Some people consider me a "freak" just because I'm a Christian. So by calling myself a Jesus Freak, it means 2 things: I'm all out for Jesus I'm willing to be different for Jesus Vangel 7/12/99 1:44 PM as far as the chaos goes, i might be mistaken, but I think you created the chaos with your post to the message board. JF hasn't caused any chaos. Azrael 7/12/99 1:44 PM wtf was that chrisitanity is now considered the norm how could you be a freak for following what most american follow and everyone believes in jesus in some form or another the islamic considered jesus a prophet, and later on so did the jews Azrael 7/12/99 1:45 PM i simply made people see what religion could cause if brought onto a game like this Vangel 7/12/99 1:46 PM I think we have different views of what being a "christian" means =) Azrael 7/12/99 1:47 PM i doubt your cult was what jesus had in mind when he told the apolostles to go out and spread the word and quoting from peter isnt the same as quoting from jesus, they were both radically different people and i am not going to pretend to know all the readings, but i know enough to get by Vangel 7/12/99 1:49 PM so share with me your views... who is Jesus to you? Azrael 7/12/99 1:50 PM jesus was a motivator in a lazy human society, a radical who knew how to shake the foundations of a failing system, and he was the son of god who came to show us a better life and failed Vangel 7/12/99 1:51 PM wow, very impressive. you believe that he was the son of God, but you think he failed? btw, you're very good at articulation =) Azrael 7/12/99 1:53 PM well i have to say i love to argue, but who argues with a person who cant speak right. he failed because he belived he could change society Vangel 7/12/99 1:59 PM seeing as you love to argue, i'll play along =) re: he failed because he belived he could change society i disagree. Jesus came for a lot of reasons (provide sinners a way to God, pay the price for sin, teach others truths about God...), but I don't think he was trying to change society. Remeber that Jesus said that the way to eternal life was small and narrow, and very few people will find it. I don't think he failed. Azrael 7/12/99 2:01 PM but what did he teach that was not corrupted by the views and ideas of the aposotles peter was a proud man and you could tell by his letters and in that he failed jesus because jesus was always humble Vangel 7/12/99 2:07 PM that's a matter of faith. as a Christian I have to believe that the scriptures were written under the influence of the Holy Spirit. If the scriptures are not true, then we have nothing to base our faith on. see? I realize to you that may sound stupid, but that's because you don't beleive. A lot of the things that you said sounded stupid to me too, but I didn't bother arguing because I understand where you'recoming from. (more) Vangel 7/12/99 2:08 PM arguing matters of faith are pointless =) we're both gonna belive what we've chosen to believe (unless one of us is weak minded) Azrael 7/12/99 2:09 PM i believe that religion is a way for people to hide from the realirty of our nature, but it serves it purpose as a unifying factor in bringing communities together i believe that we all must worship god in our own way, not how the leaders of whateve religious sect want Vangel 7/12/99 2:13 PM re: i believe that religion is a way for people to hide from the realirty of our nature... Jesus had some pretty nasty things to say about the "religous" people of his day. He called them (the pharasees) a bunch of snakes (brude of vipers). Religion is not what I'm about. I take part in some religious stuff, but only as I'm led to do so by God. The problem comes when the "religion" is more important than the cause. (more) Azrael 7/12/99 2:14 PM i know what the pharasees are the jewish high men Vangel 7/12/99 2:15 PM i like my religion (ph) because i can go to any penticostal holiness church in the world, and I know that they worship God in the same way that I do. Azrael 7/12/99 2:15 PM religions have ALWAYS had problems you cant name me a time when they havent religions are a disease that spread and infect through lies of a better tomorrow religions don't help people people help people Vangel 7/12/99 2:20 PM yeah, but a lot of people need to have a religion so that they feel like they belong to something. when you speak of "religion", you refer to them as a whole. That's like making a statement about black people because they're all black--they're still all diferent. The fact is I love Jesus, and I'll love him with or without religion. You may have subconsiously labeled me as a "religious" person just because I'm a JF. Azrael 7/12/99 2:21 PM you are a religious person where i am a spiritual one religioous people share their faith strict spiritual ones keep it to themselves Vangel 7/12/99 2:22 PM ahhh... i see =) so how does "spiritualism" grow if nobody shares what they believe? (you're right, this is fun) Azrael 7/12/99 2:23 PM spirtualism is what you belive in, and what you believe isn't necessarily the same as other. they would corupt it into their own form hence the apolostle teaching what they believed jesus wanted to teach Vangel 7/12/99 2:26 PM So between Jesus and the appostles the teachings lost some value, and as it gets passed on it looses a little bit of it's integrity... Azrael 7/12/99 2:26 PM yes Vangel 7/12/99 2:29 PM you're right...almost =) remember that I believe that the scriptures were written under the influence of the Holy Spirit, so they're not corrupted (matter of faith, you disagree i know). Now the only place for the scriptures to become corrupted is in the translation to English, but I can still look up the original Greek and Hebrew texts (in a concordance or an interliner bible) and find out what was originally stated... Vangel 7/12/99 2:29 PM ...so if i base my beliefs on scripture, it won't be corrupted like the beliefs of a corruptable religion Azrael 7/12/99 2:30 PM ah but scripture was written about 150 years after the deaths of the apostles so even then the sscriptures are flawed Vangel 7/12/99 2:32 PM that's an interesting misconception (how am i doing with this arguing thing?) ... what makes you believe that? (please don't say carbon dating) Azrael 7/12/99 2:33 PM the new testament was written by 4 sources which i am not going to pretend who they were but the apostles never had time to write down their happengs Vangel 7/12/99 2:34 PM what makes you think that? (i'm asking for some sources) Azrael 7/12/99 2:34 PM something i learned in catholic school Azrael 7/12/99 2:34 PM by a radical catholic i admire Vangel 7/12/99 2:35 PM so you're basing your beiefs on something you learned from a human being? is he corruptable? Vangel 7/12/99 2:35 PM can i add you to my contact list? =D Azrael 7/12/99 2:35 PM no he got it from facts and sources and basic logic Azrael 7/12/99 2:35 PM why? Vangel 7/12/99 2:37 PM but you don't know what his sources are and I don't see the logic (believe it or not i am fairly intelligent and I usually grasp basic logic) so you believe stuff that you can't back up, and you don't know what the sources are, and you don't know where to find the sources, and you learned it from some guy in catholic school and that's all you have as evidence? Azrael 7/12/99 2:38 PM he explained them and they are in notes i kept 3 years ago which i won't search for Vangel 7/12/99 2:41 PM you won't search for them, so i'll mark that one as a win. i need to work on some other stuff now, but i'd like to add you to my list to know when you're online so we can have further discussions. Azrael 7/12/99 2:42 PM i wouldnt consider this discussion a win on either side more like a new understanding Vangel 7/12/99 2:42 PM ok, i can live with that =) Azrael 7/12/99 2:43 PM of course this changes nothing send the request to be added Vangel 7/12/99 2:44 PM thanx =) you'll probably get a few more requests because I have icq on like 3 computers. you're a lot of fun to chat with, i'll be in touch. *vangel sags his head and returns to the grueling programming task*